Non T-Mobile® Devices

[RALTMAN]

Well this has been going on now for two months and three new phones and three new sim cards latter and no changes. I have 15 other associates who have the same palm/Treo issues and we are coming to a conclusion that we are all probably having to switch over to AT&T for service. I have been with T-mobil for a long time, but it does not appear like there will be any resolution. Maybe T-mobil will wake up someday and wonder what happend to a lot of their customer base. This happened to Sprint and it looks like it will happen to T-mobile. What is sad is that they spend so much money trying to get new customers and they are doing very little to keep thier current customers.

Yes, and I agree their current phone lineup that they support stinks. Their are no alternatives. They use to support palm products and I think that was a major mistake in doing away with palm base products.

[gregorys]

I certainly don't want to make any promises, but I *think* I may see the beginnings of some movement on TMo's part.

I have absolutely no promise they'll fix anything, but I'm pretty confident we'll see some movement in the next day or two.

In short, I know a test was done that removed DTX as an option, and for the Palm Treo/Centro (not sure which) the problem vanished. My understanding is they'll take a "regular" TMo handset and do the same test. If it fails too, then my guess is that TMo will pressure Nokia/Siemens to fix the DTX state problem, and we'll get working Palms again.

Realize this is *speculation* based on some pretty good data that I know about first-hand. So, as far as "gossip" goes, it's the best stuff. But my speculation could obviously be wrong.

Further, if a fix is pending from Nokia/Siemens, I'd expect it to take a while - certainly more than a few days. 

So, if I'm right and a fix does get done at the base-station level, I'd guess we're at least a couple of weeks out from a fix - perhaps more.

I might be able to weather the wait because, for me, the problem is quite variable. Sometimes it's terrible, other times it's almost non-existant.

More as I know it!

-Greg

Message Edited by gregorys on 10-07-2009 03:21 PM

[MaxPower]

Thanks Gregorys! It's very encouraging to hear that there's any activity at all. I'm a bit worried that the "regular" Tmo handsets will not exhibit the DTX problem, but I'm hoping they flunk enough to prompt a fix by Nokia/Siemens.

In the meantime, as a shot in the dark, I've been loading up an old Palm OS Garnet 5.4.5 ROM (Cingular branded) onto an unlocked GSM Treo 650. I'm curious whether there's any different behavior vs the unbranded Garnet 5.4.8 I've been using (with the very repeatable DTX problem). It's a shot in the dark, but since most people are using up-to-date ROMs, this old Cingular ROM may be a configuration that hasn't been tried as widely.

[MitzyG]

Beach1Florida - could you tell me if the HTC Touch Pro2 was offered to you "free" or was it offered to you at the HUMUNGO price of $350???   I tried to get the Treo Pro offer from Palm and got nowhere.   I've been checking out the HTC Touch Pro2 to see what I'll be "missing"...I'm not excited at all and the price is definitely an issue.   Plus, they'd increase my cost of internet for my phone.  Not sure why an upgrade of phone causes my already unlimited web plan to go up by $5/mo...   sniffle...

I'm hoping Tmobile is fixing this...I really love my Palm and I need more time to wait for better models that I like...

[gregorys]

Oh, I *know* about a TMo branded phone that's got the problem. It's a friend of mine - but I didn't realize he had the problem. (In fact, I'd be willing to bet that there's a LOT of people with this problem, but they think it's them, or reception, or a headset problem, a dying handset etc. No-one thinks it's TMo, and so the complaints are difuse and not easy to pinpoint.

Plus when you get the shirking or responsibility by Tech support and Customer service at TMo: Well, everythings fine. You must have dropped the handset. Your SIM is failing. That's an old handset - you need to upgrade etc - well it's not any surprise, IMO that there's not more people aware of the problem.

IMO the people who have Palms *tend* to have a lot more technical savvy, and I think they identified the problem earlier and more clearly. They weren't going to take the BS answer that they had a bad handset etc. [At least I wasn't.] It also helps that I have several Treo's to tinker with - again that's something that few "regular" handset people will have at their disposal.

Anyway.

I'm hoping that I'll have word about any test results tomorrow.

Cheers!

(And lets all hope for a Pixie or a Pre GSM for Christmas or the new year! I can say without any reservation that WinMo sucks - I've used the Treo Pro as a primary for a few days, and really - it's terrible. Sure, it's tolerable, but compared to PalmOS or what I've seen of WebOS, it's a clunky pile o'junk.) [I did get it running TZones though, which is nice...web and mail for $6/mo - I was worried I wouldn't get it running like I have on the 680...]

[global-amd]

Thanks Gregorys for keeping us up to date. This gives us hope that our problem might be solved. Today, whole day I did not have a intermittent voice problem (Largo-Tampa bay area) and it was nice to talk on the phone for a change - no angry people on the other side of line

[MitzyG]

HI!  One note....some posts have been removed without notation - just FYI to everyone following this thread.

Next, I ran my test again and the problem is EVEN WORSE than before.   During my test, the drop outs happened at least 5 times in 2 minutes!  Luckily, forwarding my phone to a landline does work well.    I admit that I don't use my phone often and more often than not, I'm listening (which does work).  But geez...I really need a working phone for the few calls that I really do need to take/make when I'm not near a landline.   I'm a bit unhappy with the current phone selection.  If there was a "good substitute", I would switch.  I'm a bit unhappy with the HTC Touch Pro2 because of the size and the unknown future of Windows Mobile operating system (why switch from Palm, that I've been using for at least 6+ years and have an investment in the software to go to a dying OS?).   I was thinking about the Motorola Cliq, but Android seems to be less than mature (or at least the apps are) - many apps broke after 1.6.    So, my current options are - great OS, unusable phone, dying OS heavy phone, or cool phone with broken apps.  What kind of choice is that????   I'm not thrilled about the thought of carrying a second device, just to have a cheap phone...I want an all in one device!

I don't have spare phones laying around that I can use...I only switch every 4+ years so my old phone is ANCIENT and my Treo 600 "retired" after multiple cracks in the case (besides, sounds like it wouldn't work either).   ARGH!!!

[haasfamily]

I finally gave up on T-Mobile getting the Palm Centro to work. Ported my wife's phone over to an AT&T GoPhone account and no voice problems whatsoever. Keeping my Treo 750 on T-Mobile for now as it has no problems and I get unlimited data with $5.99 T-Zones on FlexPay.

T-Mobile really needs to get with the program. I love their prices and customer service but is it any wonder why they are in last place in the U.S.? Between the Sidekick disaster of losing everyone's data and then network "upgrades" that break the functionality of existing unlocked phones such as Palm Centros & Treos this company needs to catch a clue. Customers deserve choice which is what the GSM standard is supposed to be all about. I should be able to take any unlocked GSM phone and connect to any GSM network provided my phone has the proper frequencies. This whole Palm Centro thing has been very frustrating and now T-Mobile has lost another customer.

Message Edited by haasfamily on 10-13-2009 09:41 AM

[MitzyG]

Hi...did everyone give up?   Things were so quiet that I decided to retest the phone.  It's still got the problem.   Seems like the frequency/duration are both changing quite often, but the problem still exists.  !!!

[MaxPower]

Sadly, I've resorted back to my G1. It's pathetic for calendar and contacts, so I'm carrying my Treo 650 around too for those functions. I'd have bailed for AT&T with my trusty Treo if I wasn't stuck in a contract due to buying the half-baked G1 a year ago...

[djkieras]

I called T-Mobile AGAIN today.  I have problems with all three of my lines.  The Centro, as documented in this thread, my wife's Sidekick (you all probably know that fiasco) and my kid's phone which, along with the other two phones, doesn't get a signal anywhere in or outside my home half the time.

T-Mo offered me their Wi-Fi @Home service to solve the phone connectivity issue.  And they gave us $100 for our trouble with the Sidekick.  How insulting.  I told them none of my phones supported @home and on my two lines that are still under contract they offered me upgrades for the "ready for upgrade" price.  So great...I gotta buy three new phones and use battery-draining wifi for calls?  I just want the service I had a year ago and the contacts back on my wife's phone.

I have 6 weeks until my early termination fee drops to $100 per line.  I will be heading to AT&T where I can use my Palm and my wife can get an iPhone and my kid can get a phone all cheaper than at T-Mo. If I thought they would drop my early term fee now, I'd have done it today. But if they know they are losing a customer, why wouldn't they get the most money they could as a coup-de-grace?  Shameful.  And T-Mo was awesome when I moved to it from Sprint nearly 4 years ago.

T-Mo, if you are reading this, make me an offer I can't refuse (like fixing the network and improving my home's reception without wifi).  Otherwise, I'm outta here.

[MitzyG]

While I agree that the cell phone problem needs to be resolved, I will tell you that I have TMobile@Home (the VOIP service, not the WiFi one) and it works great.   I forward my cell to my TMobile@Home and life is great, when I'm at home.   I really need the cell to work when I'm not at home...but for the times when I am home, that's an option that does work.

If it wasn't for TMobile@Home, I would consider going to ATT.  The package price for cell and home phone is so expensive at all other carriers, I think I may have to switch cell phone devices.  Other than this incident, I've been very very happy with TMobile.   I've had issues with all other carriers and their billing.    I'm going to try to wait for the right phone then renegotiate the phone price because I normally keep my phone for 3 years and I've only got 1.5 years out of this centro due to this issue.

[dessa]

Hello MaxPower.

I've been wondering about this.  I heard before that the Calendar and Contact apps are inadequate.  Can you tell me why?

Have you tried to find replacement apps?  When was the last time you looked?  Do you now any good sites that concentrate on this topic (PalmOS -> Android migration)?  Do you know if the apps are getting better in later versions of Android - for example, I understand that Android 2.0 (Eclair) is near release.  What about the "front ends" like MotoBlur?  Have you looked at this?  Does it bring the Calendar and/or Contacts apps up to the decade-plus-old PamOS level?

I know that PimlicoSoftware.com (makers of the venerable PalmOS DateBk app) have "Pimlical", a java app, but it is not yet available for Android.

I'd appreciate any information you can provide.  Thanks! 

[dessa]

I called T-Mobile again this past week and basically got the same "nothing exceptional we can do for you" message that others are getting.  They offered me their "best price" on an Android phone (something like $120 for the G1), would not extend the 14 day buyer's remorse period (too short to evaluate as a replacement for the PalmOS) and I'd have to extend my contract for 2 years.  

We are on a family plan and three of our four phones will be out of contract in December, but my daughter's won't be out until May.  I am laying the groundwork now to move to another service.  We'd like to keep GSM/world phones, but if Verizon gets the Pre early next year, their Everything Data family plan would actually save us money each month and give everyone data.  In the meantime, I'm telling everyone I talk to that "T-Mobile is having troubles with a number of phone models, including mine."   I have to tell everyone, because every phone call has the problem.  If they want more details, I give them the whole sordid story.  If I have a very important call (thankfully I don't rely on my cell for my business) I carry an old Moto flip-phone and put my SIM card in it.

[MitzyG]

Dessa,

     I considered switching to Android to avoid converting from one ancient OS to another ancient OS.  I went to this site to check out the application possibilities http://www.cyrket.com/   Check out the reviews of some of the apps that you want.   I found that 1) my fave apps that are available for Palm OS and Windows Mobile are not available on Android yet   2) The "substitute" apps to replace my faves are reported to not work reliably   3) It seems to take alot of time to look for and test apps and find ones that actually work, much less ones that have the features you want.  I don't have time to experiment and I don't want my phone to become plagued with nasty IM's etc (cell phone version of popups/viruses).   Then there are the apps for which there are no substitutes...the most important of which is Audible books.  

     I checked with my technofriend who said that maybe Android isn't right for me now because of the app reliability and selection.   I can program my own apps in Windows Mobile, but not with Android (I'm not a Java person).  He said that it was likely that Windows OS would survive another 2 -3 years, which would give Android enough time to mature and my fave developers time to write apps for Android and get them stable.   I checked out Windows Mobile and the latest version seems to be similar in look/feel to the Android and HTC has done their own add on "motoblur" thingie on top of Windows Mobile.  

     Normally, I would just hold on to the Centro until Android matured, but considering that I can't hold a meaningful conversation on it...I'm going to try to negotiate with TMobile's corporate dept and see if I can get them to budge lower than the normal corp discount and let me get a Windows Mobile device that is supported by TMobile.

[MaxPower]

My biggest problems with the G1 calendar and contacts revolve around the "lower fidelity" master version provided by Google's cloud (fewer fields, metadata tags, etc) along with what seem to be scalability and stability problems when it comes to sync with Outlook running on XP. I have over 4,000 calendar entries dating back to 2002 which I often need to refer back to, plus over 1,000 contacts with notes and multiple phone numbers, email addresses, birthdays, anniversaries, etc. I cannot get Android and Google's Outlook Calendar Sync to reliably perform - the only "fix" being to wipe clear my online Google calendar (avoids hanging by their sync tool) and then also wiping clear my G1 calendar. At this point, it ceases to be "sync" and becomes a laborious "copy" that is slow and often fails.

As a business tool where calendar and contact management are paramount, the G1 comes up short. To date, Google is missing out on the chance to lead the market by adding flexibility into their calendar and contacts, and let users customize and extend the data and metadata for both. With this approach, they could have the underlying data needed to support "skins" for their calendar (both online and on the G1) to look like Palm, Outlook, whatever.

My company also requires me to sync my calendar with an office management tool called WebOffice from Cisco/WebEx, which can only  effectively be done via Outlook and WebOffice's IntelliSync tool. I'm not a big fan of Outlook, and mostly I use Palm Desktop as the "master". I use a tool called SwitchSync Ex that allows me to sync my Palm device with both Palm Desktop and Outlook instead of just one or the other. In this scenario, Outlook is effectively just a "conduit" between Palm and WebOffice.

I've looked around for replacement apps, with some hopeful curiosity about PimlicoSoftware's plans. Haven't looked at Motoblur, but it looks a bit like Soocial. May be very helpful with contact management, but my biggest problem is probably calendaring.

What I need (and don't always get with G1/Google)

- A smartphone that can fully sync against a large-scale "master" in a timely and complete manner

- Ability to reliably sync with Outlook calendar and contacts

- Ability to sync across multiple computers (home and work systems)

- If the "cloud" is the master, it better be the version with "full fidelity" (lossy sync is not acceptable)

For now, I plan to use the G1 for what it's good for: A decent phone, very good browser (with WebKit at it's core, it should be great), ok multi-account POP3 email, mapping+GPS, better-than-Palm camera, along with snapshot copies of contacts and calendar managed outside of the Google cloud.

I plan to continue dragging around my Treo 650 as a non-phone Calendar and Contacts master, and MP3 player. A long time ago I modified the ROM to have the FAT32 driver to enable larger SD cards, and this weekend I plan to try the SDHC mods so I can use a 32GB card for music.

I understand the promise and appeal of cloud computing, but so far I feel like a "beta tester" who's paying "fully productized" prices...

[dberland]

Today is Oct 24 and the TMobile customer service persons I spoke to still claimed not to know anything about this issue. I informed them that this forum exists and TMo risks losing all of these TMo customers if they don't solve the problem or acknowledge that TMo has made a corporate decision essentially to attempt to force Palm users to other devices or switch carriers. That's what it feels like to me but the agent wouldn't admit that. For now, I'll carry two devices I guess.

[MitzyG]

Hi...glad I'm not the only one here who hasn't switched!   I would really like the problem fixed...

[gregorys]

It's been a while since I last posted. I know there was some internal discussion within TMo about the problem this last week. I'm quite sure they were able to reproduce the DTX problems with "regular" TMo handsets too, and that this discussion was to evaluate what to do about the problem.

However, I have not heard what the outcome of those discussions were.

I've inquired, but I don't want to make a pest of myself with my contact, thus I'm awaiting a reply. I expect to have something early next week.

As an aside, I've been trying to use the Treo Pro, and frankly I despise WinMo. Last night I switched back to the Treo 680, and can't believe how much easier it is to use. Not sure what I'll do if the problem isn't resolved - likely I'll continue to use the 680, and if the problem remains bad enough, I'll buy a cheap handset off Craigslist for TMo use.

...and I'll take every opportunity to kick TMo in the family jewels. And given my line of work, I'll have ample opportunity to do so. I'd guess I can easily cost them 5-10K dollars of lost revenue a year.(I get asked about high-tech devices, mobile data-plans and telecomm stuff on a regular basis - can you guess who won't be getting a recommendation?)

So, TMo, get off your duff, and do the right thing please!

-Greg

[MitzyG]

One thought I had...this problem was happening at the same time as the Sidekick issue.  I'm wondering if they're devoting more resources to the Sidekick data recovery than fixing this problem.   I say that Palm users are TMobile customers too and we deserve some service!!!   The Sidekick folks got their contacts back, the angry ones are angry.  Now, try to save some of your Palm users before we all leave too.